...making Linux just a little more fun!
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Hello, all -
After a number of years of running LG, I've reached a stopping point: I can't continue producing it, for a variety of interconnected reasons. In short, the group of people currently involved in making LG happen has become so small that almost the entire thing has fallen on me - and the technical side of producing it is so complicated that my current level of business and other life involvement does not leave me with enough spare time to do it. As a result, there was no LG issue for this month - and despite giving it my best shot over the past two weeks, I have still not managed to release one.
That seems to me to be an extraordinarily clear signal that the time has come for me to step down. Whether that means that someone else gets to take over, or whether LG simply ends at this point, I don't know. I've tried to prevent the latter... but it appears that I have reached the end of what I can do in that regard. Whether it continues or not has to become someone else's concern. I am no longer able to carry the load.
I'm sure that someone with better management skills than mine could organize and structure a working team that would distribute the load; someone with more time could replace the totally outdated and rather arcane production system, which currently takes many hours of work to release an issue (by contrast, a CMS such as WordPress could easily be configured to replicate the LG site structure, and production - as well as adding proofreaders and editors - would become a trivial matter rather than the complicated and fragile SVN-based system currently in place.) I would be happy to advise whoever takes over, assuming that someone does.
The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively produced by me. My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let down.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
René Pfeiffer [lynx at luchs.at]
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Hello, Ben!
On May 16, 2011 at 1149 -0400, Ben Okopnik appeared and said:
> Hello, all - >=20 > After a number of years of running LG, I've reached a stopping point: I > can't continue producing it, for a variety of interconnected reasons. In > short, the group of people currently involved in making LG happen has > become so small that almost the entire thing has fallen on me - and the > technical side of producing it is so complicated that my current level > of business and other life involvement does not leave me with enough > spare time to do it. As a result, there was no LG issue for this month - > and despite giving it my best shot over the past two weeks, I have still > not managed to release one.
I've been expecting this, and I fully understand. I've been trying to put some of my resources into the editing process, but frankly I failed due to my workload and other events.
> That seems to me to be an extraordinarily clear signal that the time has > come for me to step down. Whether that means that someone else gets to > take over, or whether LG simply ends at this point, I don't know. I've > tried to prevent the latter... but it appears that I have reached the > end of what I can do in that regard. Whether it continues or not has to > become someone else's concern. I am no longer able to carry the load.
I suggest we use your e-mail as a basis and publish this as LG issue. We may not have articles then, but at least it is clear to everyone what happened. In the past you've sent warning signals out, calling for volunteers. We tried to put the editing process on a broader basis, but it didn't work out.
> ... > The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively > produced by me. My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let > down.
You haven't let down anyone; on the contrary, without you the LG would
probably have ended much sooner. I wont't forget that and tell everyone who
asks. 
Best, René.
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TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
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Peter =?iso-8859-1?q?H=FCwe?= [PeterHuewe at gmx.de]
Am Montag 16 Mai 2011, 17:49:06 schrieb Ben Okopnik:
> Hello, all -
Hey Ben,
sorry to hear - but thanks for your great work and all the effort you've put into LG! I think we all understand - so no hard feelings. Thanks!
What I was wondering since I read your email - how many readers/page impressions does LG currently have? Because if there is a broad readership then continuing LG (as LG 2.0 or LG 2.6 ;) would perhaps be an idea worth considering.
Using an CMS like wordpress, serendipity or typo3 would easen the life of the authors and proofreaders perhaps and also unburden the editor in charge. I know that typo3 offers a whole workflow for publications, but I think the others would do it as well.
Ben, can you tell me perhaps where LG is currently hosted and how much this costs on monthly average?
I was also wondering how many people on this list would like to contribute further to LG (under a new leader)
Thanks, Peter
TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Thomas Adam [thomas at xteddy.org]
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 09:10:37PM +0200, Peter H=FCwe wrote:
> Am Montag 16 Mai 2011, 17:49:06 schrieb Ben Okopnik: > > Hello, all - > =
> Hey Ben, > =
> sorry to hear - but thanks for your great work and all the effort you've =put =
> into LG! I think we all understand - so no hard feelings. > Thanks!
Yes, it's a shame to think LG might have ended.
> Using an CMS like wordpress, serendipity or typo3 would easen the life of=the =
> authors and proofreaders perhaps and also unburden the editor in charge. > I know that typo3 offers a whole workflow for publications, but I think t=he =
> others would do it as well.
I remember when we had to move away from SSC. One of the reasons for that was not to use a CMS. I wonder how applicable that is some seven years or so on?
-- Thomas Adam
-- =
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.) TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Rares Aioanei [schaiba at gmail.com]
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afsilva@gmail.com [afsilva at gmail.com]
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote:
> Hello, all - > > After a number of years of running LG, I've reached a stopping point: I > can't continue producing it, for a variety of interconnected reasons. In > short, the group of people currently involved in making LG happen has > become so small that almost the entire thing has fallen on me - and the > technical side of producing it is so complicated that my current level > of business and other life involvement does not leave me with enough > spare time to do it. As a result, there was no LG issue for this month - > and despite giving it my best shot over the past two weeks, I have still > not managed to release one. > > That seems to me to be an extraordinarily clear signal that the time has > come for me to step down. Whether that means that someone else gets to > take over, or whether LG simply ends at this point, I don't know. I've > tried to prevent the latter... but it appears that I have reached the > end of what I can do in that regard. Whether it continues or not has to > become someone else's concern. I am no longer able to carry the load. > > I'm sure that someone with better management skills than mine could > organize and structure a working team that would distribute the load; > someone with more time could replace the totally outdated and rather > arcane production system, which currently takes many hours of work to > release an issue (by contrast, a CMS such as WordPress could easily be > configured to replicate the LG site structure, and production - as well > as adding proofreaders and editors - would become a trivial matter > rather than the complicated and fragile SVN-based system currently in > place.) I would be happy to advise whoever takes over, assuming that > someone does. > > The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively > produced by me. My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let > down. > > > -- > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * > > TAG mailing list > TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net > http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag >
I can't blame you Ben. I've grown to appreciate the work you do with LG, and over the past 15 months or so it has inspired me to help as much as I could, but probably not as much as I should have.
I do think the idea of maybe moving LG to something where people can contribute in a more social like environment interesting.
Maybe a combination of Twitter and Facebook where people can post 2 cents tips to the wall. Or maybe move it towards a 'forum' like style with different threads, and a 'community' built around it.
All of it requires work though, so the catch-22...
-- http://www.the-silvas.com TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Hi, René!
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:27:45PM +0200, René Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hello, Ben! > > On May 16, 2011 at 1149 -0400, Ben Okopnik appeared and said: > > Hello, all - > > > > After a number of years of running LG, I've reached a stopping point: I > > can't continue producing it, for a variety of interconnected reasons. In > > short, the group of people currently involved in making LG happen has > > become so small that almost the entire thing has fallen on me - and the > > technical side of producing it is so complicated that my current level > > of business and other life involvement does not leave me with enough > > spare time to do it. As a result, there was no LG issue for this month - > > and despite giving it my best shot over the past two weeks, I have still > > not managed to release one. > > I've been expecting this, and I fully understand. I've been trying to put > some of my resources into the editing process, but frankly I failed due to > my workload and other events.
My turn to join the crowd, then.
> > That seems to me to be an extraordinarily clear signal that the time has > > come for me to step down. Whether that means that someone else gets to > > take over, or whether LG simply ends at this point, I don't know. I've > > tried to prevent the latter... but it appears that I have reached the > > end of what I can do in that regard. Whether it continues or not has to > > become someone else's concern. I am no longer able to carry the load. > > I suggest we use your e-mail as a basis and publish this as LG issue. We > may not have articles then, but at least it is clear to everyone what > happened. > In the past you've sent warning signals out, calling for volunteers. We > tried to put the editing process on a broader basis, but it didn't work > out.
That makes sense. I've actually got several articles that I'd like to push out to the world before it's all over - that was one of the things that made giving up such a bitter pill. I should be able to scrape up enough spoons [1] to put out one last issue, say on the first of the upcoming month... but that's my limit. [1] Not that I'm sick, but here's a really good take from someone with lupus on having only so much available for interaction with the world:
http://tinyurl.com/NumberOfSpoons
> > The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively > > produced by me. My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let > > down. > > You haven't let down anyone; on the contrary, without you the LG would > probably have ended much sooner. I wont't forget that and tell everyone who > asks.
[wry grin] Thanks, René. I'm not particularly concerned about other people's opinions... but my friends' opinions do matter, very much, so I really do appreciate the acknowledgement and the support.
Ben
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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Hi, Peter -
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 09:10:37PM +0200, Peter Hüwe wrote:
> Am Montag 16 Mai 2011, 17:49:06 schrieb Ben Okopnik: > > Hello, all - > > Hey Ben, > > sorry to hear - but thanks for your great work and all the effort you've put > into LG! I think we all understand - so no hard feelings. > Thanks!You're welcome! I've stayed mostly behind the scenes and tried to give credit to everyone else who participated, so I wasn't even sure that anyone noticed. :\
> What I was wondering since I read your email - how many readers/page > impressions does LG currently have?
Between the number of unique IPs in the server log, Alexa's popularity
rating, and the LG "fan" page on Facebook, it could be anywhere from a
couple of hundred to a couple of million. Personally, I'm confused as
hell, and have no clue.
> Because if there is a broad readership then continuing LG (as LG 2.0 or LG 2.6 > ;) would perhaps be an idea worth considering. > > Using an CMS like wordpress, serendipity or typo3 would easen the life of the > authors and proofreaders perhaps and also unburden the editor in charge.
Yep; I agree. A while ago, I put together a template for it under WordPress, and it took less than half an hour to set up from scratch. Issues as categories, editors and proofreaders given accounts with appropriate levels of access, and making categories private by default and public when you want to go live - bingo, it's all there. Nice and easy.
> I know that typo3 offers a whole workflow for publications, but I think the > others would do it as well.
I tried out typo3 a while back on my system, and found it very complex as far as configuration goes. I also couldn't figure out a reasonable workflow, so I gave up on it - but I will note that I really enjoyed its very clean and precise interface. Perhaps if I'd stuck with it, it would have started making sense sooner or later.
> Ben, can you tell me perhaps where LG is currently hosted and how much this > costs on monthly average?
I'm hosting it at my VPS. If someone wants to continue it, or set up a CMS (or whatever), I'll be glad to continue hosting it - no charge.
Ben
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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 08:14:22PM +0100, Thomas Adam wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 09:10:37PM +0200, Peter Hüwe wrote: > > > Using an CMS like wordpress, serendipity or typo3 would easen the life of the > > authors and proofreaders perhaps and also unburden the editor in charge. > > I know that typo3 offers a whole workflow for publications, but I think the > > others would do it as well. > > I remember when we had to move away from SSC. One of the reasons for that > was not to use a CMS. I wonder how applicable that is some seven years or > so on?
It wasn't so much about using a CMS as making it a free-for-all, without editing, proofing, or any other type of review. SSC basically wanted to make it into a blog so that they wouldn't have to put in any more effort into it.
Well, I managed to keep it going for almost another five years past that point - good grief, it has been quite a run, hasn't it? - and I'm certainly not giving up due to lack of interest. Many people will miss it if - or when - it's gone.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:21:36PM +0300, Rares Aioanei wrote:
> > I agree wholeheartedly : make this a public announcement and also > a call for volunteers. Maybe it will work out for the better. And > I do not think anyone's accusing you or anything, quite the opposite.
Thanks, Aioanei. And thanks for your unfailing effort as well; you've been a great help, quietly but reliably doing your work. It's been a real pleasure to work with you.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
jmanel [jmanel at gmail.com]
Hi , I think everyone has not that much time as before. I have enjoyed the issues of LG i have read, i thought I was very lucky by finding a place that people so knowledgeable speak so freely about the things they know, linux or any other thing. I would love to see continue the mailing list but i don't know if that is a lot of effort for you. I don't think you have let anyone down. Take a break, relax and if you find you want to share thoughts or news or anything i don't mind at all to hear from you. It's been nice to hear from you all. Sorry if my english is not so good. Josep Manel
Now I am teaching tecnology and computers more than doing any work directly involved with industry but anyone that wants help ask directly and would try to help. TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 09:54:56PM +0200, Peter Hüwe wrote:
> Am Montag 16 Mai 2011, 21:14:22 schrieb Thomas Adam: > > > Using an CMS like wordpress, serendipity or typo3 would easen the life of > > > the authors and proofreaders perhaps and also unburden the editor in > > > charge. I know that typo3 offers a whole workflow for publications, but > > > I think the others would do it as well. > > > > I remember when we had to move away from SSC. One of the reasons for that > > was not to use a CMS. I wonder how applicable that is some seven years > > or so on? > > SSC? Sorry I don't know the whole history of LG - I stumbled upon it about 1 > year ago ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Gazette
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at okopnik.com]
Hi, Anderson -
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 04:08:13PM -0400, Anderson Silva wrote:
> > I can't blame you Ben. I've grown to appreciate the work you do with > LG, and over the past 15 months or so it has inspired me to help as > much as I could, but probably not as much as I should have.
You've been great, actually. Between the Social Media stuff and your article submissions, you've been a very important and active contributor to LG. Thanks for all that.
Ben
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Rares Aioanei [schaiba at gmail.com]
On Mon, 16 May 2011 17:08:21 -0400 Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:21:36PM +0300, Rares Aioanei wrote: > > > > I agree wholeheartedly : make this a public announcement and also > > a call for volunteers. Maybe it will work out for the better. And > > I do not think anyone's accusing you or anything, quite the opposite. > > Thanks, Aioanei. And thanks for your unfailing effort as well; you've > been a great help, quietly but reliably doing your work. It's been a > real pleasure to work with you.
The pleasure is all mine, and I want to help LG as I did until now and hopefully more. Unemployment does have its upsides. :P
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Henry Grebler [henrygrebler at optusnet.com.au]
Hi Ben,
I join all the others who thanked you for all your work for LG over the past many years. On a personal note, I'd like to thank you for all you have done for me and for all you have taught me. I came in brashly believing I could write. Without crushing my delicate ego, you allowed me to aim for much better. If I have failed to improve, I bear full responsibility.
All this leads me to make a suggestion. I hasten to add that I understand that suggesting what other people should do is cheap, but I ask that you hear me out.
Let me quote you (my emphases):
-->After a number of years of RUNNING LG, I've reached a stopping point: I -->can't continue PRODUCING it, for a variety of interconnected reasons. In -->short, the group of people currently involved in making LG happen has -->become so small that almost the ENTIRE THING HAS FALLEN ON ME - and the -->TECHNICAL SIDE OF PRODUCING IT is so complicated that my current level -->of business and other life involvement does NOT leave me with ENOUGH -->SPARE TIME to do it.
-->I'm sure that someone with better MANAGEMENT SKILLS than mine could -->ORGANIZE AND STRUCTURE a working team that would distribute the load;
--> I would be happy to advise whoever takes over,
-->The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively -->PRODUCED by me.
-->* Ben Okopnik * EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * ===============
What all the above says to me is that you have carried too many roles. For far too long.
If it were possible, here's what I'd like to suggest. Take away from you all the mechanical and administrative tasks which you have been performing (seemingly, on your own). These are tasks in which you are not uniquely gifted. These all relate to the PRODUCING (or publishing) of LG. Also, take away from you the lower level journalistic tasks like proof-reading.
I would leave for you the title and role that I suspect you hold dear, a role you perform uniquely well: Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette.
If anyone out there is under the illusion that all an editor does is put commas where the idiot author had semicolons, then LG is lost already.
I have been delighted to see some of my articles published by Ben. By the same token, I have a directory full of articles which, for one reason or another, were rejected by Ben. (In some cases, he diplomatically left the left the final decision to delay or modify up to me.)
It's the fish that John West rejects That makes John West the best
- (probably misquoted) advertisement
If anyone and everyone is allowed to publish articles in the New LG,
it's probably true that NLG will have more articles. But what about
quality? I could get all my irrelevant, unrelated, off-topic articles
published; all my rants; all my wrong-headed, incorrect drivel (.
But, I suspect that, as the quality falls off, the value of NLG will gradually decrease - more noise, less signal - until it ceases to be relevant.
I have some other thoughts, but I have gone on for far too long already.
Ben, I don't know that you want to continue as Editor-in-Chief. I hope I have not put unreasonable pressure on you.
-->My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let down.
Again, I echo all those who say you have let no one down. We all could see this coming. If anything we have collectively let you down.
Regards and Thanks, Henry TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Arslan Farooq [arslanone at gmail.com]
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Hi Ben!
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:16 AM, Henry Grebler <henrygrebler@optusnet.com.au
> wrote:[...]
> Ben, I don't know that you want to continue as Editor-in-Chief. I hope > I have not put unreasonable pressure on you. > > > -->My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let down. > > Again, I echo all those who say you have let no one down. We all could > see this coming. If anything we have collectively let you down. > > >
I agree with Henry here. LG would be *less fun* without you. Don't just disappear is all I'm asking... stay with whatever you could manage easily. You have not let anyone down. Volunteers like myself have let LG down.
Few weeks ago I was working on a site and the PageSpeed was telling me to
optimize images by losslessly compressing them. I did not know about this.
The best help I was able to find was here:
http://linuxgazette.net/119/lindholm.html
No pressure. Just think about it. We all love you no matter what decision you make in the end.
Thanks, God bless you.
-- Life is a single skip for joy.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ben!<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 17, = 2011 at 5:16 AM, Henry Grebler <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:henr= ygrebler@optusnet.com.au" target=3D"_blank">henrygrebler@optusnet.com.au</a=
>></span> wrotebr>
<div>[...] <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt = 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"> Ben, I don't know that you want to continue as Editor-in-Chief. I hope<= br> I have not put unreasonable pressure on you.<br> <br> <br> -->My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let down.<br> <br> Again, I echo all those who say you have let no one down. We all could<br> see this coming. If anything we have collectively let you down.<br> <br> <br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><br>I agree with Henry here. LG would= be <i>less fun</i> without you. Don't just disappear is all I'm as= king... stay with whatever you could manage easily. You have not let anyo= ne down. Volunteers like myself have let LG down.<br>
<br>Few weeks ago I was working on a site and the PageSpeed was telling me =
to optimize images by losslessly compressing them. I did not know about thi=
s. The best help I was able to find was here: <a href=3D"http://linuxgazett=
e.net/119/lindholm.html" target=3D"_blank">http://linuxgazette.net/119/lind=
holm.html</a>=C2=A0 <br>
<br><br>No pressure. Just think about it. We all love you no matter what de= cision you make in the end.<br><br>Thanks, God bless you.<br><br><br><br cl= ear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr">Life is a single skip for joy.</div=
>
<br> </div>
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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:20:17AM +0300, Rares Aioanei wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2011 17:08:21 -0400 > Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote: > > > Thanks, Aioanei. And thanks for your unfailing effort as well; you've > > been a great help, quietly but reliably doing your work. It's been a > > real pleasure to work with you. > > The pleasure is all mine, and I want to help LG as I did until now and > hopefully more. Unemployment does have its upsides. :P
If you happen to need a reference for a work application, you're always welcome to use my name. As Shakespeare said, "I know thy quality".
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at okopnik.com]
Hi, Henry -
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:16:34AM +1000, Henry Grebler wrote:
> > Hi Ben, > > I join all the others who thanked you for all your work for LG over > the past many years. On a personal note, I'd like to thank you for all > you have done for me and for all you have taught me. I came in brashly > believing I could write. Without crushing my delicate ego, you allowed > me to aim for much better. If I have failed to improve, I bear full > responsibility.
[smile] My friend, you're an excellent, talented writer; I've thought so from the very beginning. Whatever help I've managed to provide has been more in the nature of polishing a fine jewel, and the process has brought me much pleasure. Thank you for your participation and your help.
Of all the things that participating in LG has brought me, the thing that I've always valued the most was the opportunity to become friends with a number of terrific people. That's also the aspect of it that I'm going to miss the most.
> All this leads me to make a suggestion.
[...]
> What all the above says to me is that you have carried too many roles. > For far too long.
Absolutely spot-on.
> If it were possible, here's what I'd like to suggest. Take away from > you all the mechanical and administrative tasks which you have been > performing (seemingly, on your own). These are tasks in which you are > not uniquely gifted. These all relate to the PRODUCING (or publishing) > of LG. Also, take away from you the lower level journalistic tasks > like proof-reading. > > I would leave for you the title and role that I suspect you hold dear, > a role you perform uniquely well: Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette.
That was what I'd tried to do, and to build, while running LG - and failed. The reason is immaterial now, but the result, inevitably, was to exhaust my own resources. Perhaps someone else, with fresh motivation and more team-building ability, will succeed.
> Ben, I don't know that you want to continue as Editor-in-Chief. I hope > I have not put unreasonable pressure on you.Not at all. I had put off quitting while I had doubts about it, and quit when I no longer had any doubts.
> -->My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let down. > > Again, I echo all those who say you have let no one down. We all could > see this coming. If anything we have collectively let you down.
Thanks, Henry. I honestly do not feel that any of you have let me down in any way; I'm sincerely grateful for all the help that I got.
Ben
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Steve Brown [steve.stevebrown at gmail.com]
HI Ben,
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote:
> The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively > produced by me. My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let > down.
I'd like to add my voice to the throng thanking you for all you've done.
You are an extraordinarily gifted mentor, and have been so to many on this list - I thank you for all the time you've spent coaching and teaching me over the years. You are truly inspirational.
Keep well Ben and the very best of luck with all your future endeavours,
Steve TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Ben Okopnik [ben at okopnik.com]
Hi, Josep -
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:11:53PM +0200, jmanel wrote:
> Hi , > I think everyone has not that much time as before.
That may well be true - although that's not the key problem in my case. It does contribute to it, though.
> I have enjoyed the issues of LG i have read, i thought I was very > lucky by finding a place that people so knowledgeable speak so freely > about the things they know, linux or any other thing.
That's an environment that I loved fostering here. Nowadays, though, there's a number of other places where that holds true - even with regard to Linux.
> I would love to see continue the mailing list but i don't know if > that is a lot of effort for you.
It's not any effort, really - but... TAG, without an LG in which to pub the discussions, is not viable. It needs an environment, a structure around it, that will give it meaning. Perhaps recreating some form of it on Facebook, as has been suggested here, would work well.
The main purpose of TAG up to this point was to answer the readers' questions; without readers, that purpose is lost. It would be great if TAG could be preserved in some form - it's a group that consists of some great, knowledgeable people. Aristotle was right; the whole is indeed greater than the sum of its parts, and this group is an excellent example. I'd hate for that to dissipate into thin air.
Ben
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Ben Okopnik [ben at okopnik.com]
Hi, Arslan!
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 08:41:45AM +0500, Arslan Farooq wrote:
> > I agree with Henry here. LG would be less fun without you. Don't just disappear > is all I'm asking... stay with whatever you could manage easily.
Well, assuming that someone takes over LG - and no one has come forward yet, although something may yet happen after the final issue comes out - I'd be happy to hang around. I don't want LG to end... but I do need to remove what has become a crushing weight from my shoulders.
> No pressure. Just think about it. We all love you no matter what decision you > make in the end. > > Thanks, God bless you.
Thanks, Arslan. I appreciate your good wishes.
Ben
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Ben Okopnik [ben at okopnik.com]
Hi, Steve -
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 09:51:52AM +0100, Steve Brown wrote:
> HI Ben, > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote: > > > The current state, however, is that LG is no longer being actively > > produced by me. My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let > > down. > > > I'd like to add my voice to the throng thanking you for all you've done. > > You are an extraordinarily gifted mentor, and have been so to many on > this list - I thank > you for all the time you've spent coaching and teaching me over the > years. You are truly > inspirational.
Thank you - that means a lot to me. I'd hoped that LG would become a vehicle for growth; would be a forum in which the available expertise would support new Linux users, give them wings and provide for soft landings. I didn't manage to carry that off - but it's good to hear that I achieved at least a small part of that purpose.
> Keep well Ben and the very best of luck with all your future endeavours,
Thanks, Steve; I wish you the same.
Ben
--
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>> On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:49:06 -0400, >> Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> said:
B> After a number of years of running LG, I've reached a stopping point: I B> can't continue producing it, for a variety of interconnected reasons.
It's not like we weren't warned, but let's look at this like a nasty programming problem.
B> [A]lmost the entire thing has fallen on me -
Distribute the load so the system will scale properly.
B> and the technical side of producing it is so complicated that my current B> level of business and other life involvement does not leave me with B> enough spare time to do it.
Release early and often, do the simplest thing that can possibly work.
B> [R]eplace the totally outdated and rather arcane production system, B> which currently takes many hours of work to release an issue
For now we dump some features that look neat but are just taking too much time to implement/maintain. I think the next part's the fix:
B> A CMS such as WordPress could easily be configured to replicate the LG B> site structure, and production - as well as adding proofreaders and B> editors - would become a trivial matter rather than the complicated and B> fragile SVN-based system currently in place.
WordPress is certainly capable enough to use for a complete CMS, and it would make a great base for LG 2.0 as long as someone keeps an eye on the security; PHP has an all-your-eggs-in-one-basket security model, which is tolerable as long as you watch the basket.
If you want to see how WP can serve as the engine behind a good group site, have a look at http://www.bookwormroom.com/. Disclaimer: it's a political site, but ignore the articles and look at the arrangement. You have one main owner/editor/den-mother[1] with a "Watcher's Council" of supporters, many of whom post at irregular intervals. There's never a shortage of content, and the site looks very professional.
Other advantages to keep your workload down:
* Comment-spam crap can be kept to a minimum by using tested plugins and allowing post by email, so you can use your existing mail filter: http://codex.wordpress.org/Blog_by_Email has details about procmail and qmail setups, etc.
* The WP account system supports an editor with God privileges plus additional contributors. http://www.grahamazon.com/wordpress-as-cms/ describes a setup where the admin user approves posts; basic users can post new projects and edit old ones, but when they click "save", the post becomes a draft. This way we can avoid the potential quality decline I've seen mentioned; the editor edits instead of worrying about production details.
* Handle search, event calendars, page links, and contact forms: http://blueprintds.com/2008/03/13/top-10-wordpress-cms-plugins/
* Static home page option, future posts calendar, role management, and easier admin publishing menus: http://wpgarage.com/wordpress-as-cms/10-plugins-that-will-make-wordpress-into-a-cms/
* Dynamic content, Category templates (PHP examples instead of plugins): http://www.webdesignerwall.com/tutorials/wordpress-theme-hacks/
* Allow a more complex hierarchy of pages suitable for LG, create a sitemap: http://apeatling.wordpress.com/2006/11/23/five-wordpress-cms-enabling-plugins/
B> My most sincere apologies to anyone that I have let down.
You've let nobody down; LG has been on my must-read list for years.
If LG moves to something like this, do you lose the ISSN number? Jakob Nielsen has a blog but managed to keep his: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/search-strategy-example.html
[1] not to imply that you're a mother or anything.
-- Karl Vogel I don't speak for the USAF or my company
I think men who have a pierced ear are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought jewelry. --Rita Rudner TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Arslan Farooq [arslanone at gmail.com]
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On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Karl Vogel <vogelke+tag@pobox.com> wrote:
> > B> A CMS such as WordPress could easily be configured to replicate the LG > B> site structure, and production - as well as adding proofreaders and > B> editors - would become a trivial matter rather than the complicated and > B> fragile SVN-based system currently in place. > > [...] > > If you want to see how WP can serve as the engine behind a good group > site, have a look at http://www.bookwormroom.com/. Disclaimer: it's > a political site, but ignore the articles and look at the arrangement. > You have one main owner/editor/den-mother[1] with a "Watcher's Council" > of supporters, many of whom post at irregular intervals. There's never > a shortage of content, and the site looks very professional. >
Tthis may work. We already have an excellent group of writers. It will be just like a blog (?) and the writers can publish articles whenever they have something new to share. We can have other categories like TAG, News Bytes, HelpDex etc.
Definitely an interesting idea. Thanks Karl.
-- arslan
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 18, 2011 at=
7:44 AM, Karl Vogel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:vogelke%2Btag@=
pobox.com" target=3D"_blank">vogelke+tag@pobox.com</a>></span> wrotebr=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br> B> A CMS such as WordPress could easily be configured to replicate the L= G<br> B> site structure, and production - as well as adding proofreaders and<b= r> B> editors - would become a trivial matter rather than the complicated a= nd<br> B> fragile SVN-based system currently in place.<br> <br> [...]<br> <br> =C2=A0 If you want to see how WP can serve as the engine behind a good gro= up<br> =C2=A0 site, have a look at <a href=3D"http://www.bookwormroom.com/" targe= t=3D"_blank">http://www.bookwormroom.com/</a>. =C2=A0Disclaimer: it's<b= r> =C2=A0 a political site, but ignore the articles and look at the arrangeme= nt.<br> =C2=A0 You have one main owner/editor/den-mother[1] with a "Watcher&#= 39;s Council"<br> =C2=A0 of supporters, many of whom post at irregular intervals. =C2=A0Ther= e's never<br> =C2=A0 a shortage of content, and the site looks very professional.<br></b= lockquote><div><br><br> </div></div>Tthis may work. We already have an excellent group of writers. = It will be just like a blog (?) and the writers can publish articles whenev= er they have something new to share. We can have other categories like TAG,= News Bytes, HelpDex etc.<br>
<br>Definitely an interesting idea. Thanks Karl.<br><br>-- arslan<br><br></= div>
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Steve Brown [steve.stevebrown at gmail.com]
Hi Ben,
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Ben Okopnik <ben@okopnik.com> wrote:
> Thank you - that means a lot to me. I'd hoped that LG would become a > vehicle for growth; would be a forum in which the available expertise > would support new Linux users, give them wings and provide for soft > landings. I didn't manage to carry that off - but it's good to hear that > I achieved at least a small part of that purpose.
I don't think that it is the case that you didn't manage to carry it off - more that the Linux environment changed. Distibutions are much easier to install, hardware has better support and there are more locations to go to for help if you are stuck.
Also I consider that LG is a forum for expertise - the articles are of a consistently high standard and TAG often has very interesting conversations that roam over many aspects of Linux use not covered elsewhere.
It hasn't failed - it is just too burdensome for one man to keep doing alone. It needs a team, built around a different editor to give you the rest you need. I'd hate to see you leave LG entirely though - you have been such a vital part for so long, perhaps a guest editor slot would suit?
Best,
Steve TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Hi, Karl -
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:44:36PM -0400, Karl Vogel wrote:
> >> On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:49:06 -0400, > >> Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> said: > > B> After a number of years of running LG, I've reached a stopping point: I > B> can't continue producing it, for a variety of interconnected reasons. > > It's not like we weren't warned, but let's look at this like a nasty > programming problem.
Oddly enough, that's been my default approach. And perhaps also the reason for - well, let's call it "not reaching the goals I had."
The technical problems in running LG (and yes, I understand that this is peripheral to what you're talking about; I'm just drawing a parallel here) are/were all surmountable. Most, in fact, have been handled, at least within the context of the old system. The remaining problems were all social in nature: whether through lack of time (and that was a major factor) or through lack of ability in that area, I was unable to "capture the hearts and minds" of the kind of people that were needed as LG staff. That's not to say that a number of people didn't help along the way; quite a few did. The problem is that no one seemed interested in getting involved in the process of running LG itself, in working with the system behind the tasks.
The worst part of the above, for me, is the feeling that I should have been able to do something - I don't know what, but something - to change that.
(Given all the UFO reports, surely there's a Human Reference Manual somewhere out there by now (other than "How to Serve Man"); all you have to do is learn Betelgeusian or Perseid or whatever, and find the right bookseller. Just as surely, though, there isn't one for human social groupings. Way too many variables. Yet, somehow, some people manage. They're the ones in the history books.)
> B> [A]lmost the entire thing has fallen on me - > > Distribute the load so the system will scale properly.
Yes, that would do it. Once there was a staff willing to carry the load, that is.
"Assuming a spherical cow..."
> B> and the technical side of producing it is so complicated that my current > B> level of business and other life involvement does not leave me with > B> enough spare time to do it. > > Release early and often, do the simplest thing that can possibly work.
That's been the /modus operandi/ for a while now. One man couldn't possibly handle all the tasks otherwise.
> B> [R]eplace the totally outdated and rather arcane production system, > B> which currently takes many hours of work to release an issue > > For now we dump some features that look neat but are just taking too > much time to implement/maintain. I think the next part's the fix:
If you see any, please point them out. As it is, the previous point covers the "neat but not strictly necessary" features: AFAIK, there aren't any. In any case, all of these suggestions - useful as they are in themselves - miss the key problem I've detailed above. Hopefully, they'll be of help to whoever decides to carry LG forward... assuming that such a person exists.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 09:19:58AM +0500, Arslan Farooq wrote:
> > Tthis may work. We already have an excellent group of writers. It will be just > like a blog (?) and the writers can publish articles whenever they have > something new to share. We can have other categories like TAG, News Bytes, > HelpDex etc.
The thing that made LG different - and, at least to my mind, it was a difference worth preserving - was that it focused on peer-reviewed, regularly-released content. That's what made it stand out from the multitude of Linux blogs out there, and what created the reason for that excellent group of writers to submit their articles to LG rather than just publishing them in their own blogs. I strongly suspect that going to a blog format would lose a large number, if not all, of those writers.
This aspect of switching to a CMS was one of the reasons that we split from SSC. There were other, even bigger ones, but the switch to "publish at will" was a large piece of the whole: it was a clear signal that SSC didn't want to "waste their time" on LG any longer, and would let the crowd have their bread and circuses... and we all know how that approach ended for Rome.
(From that perspective, I guess I'm Sulla; in a small way, I I aimed for similar goals and got similar results. Maybe I didn't have his vision or his ability, but then, few men did - and I didn't send out any death squads, either. And "non melior amicus, non nequior hostis" is pretty apropos as well.)
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Hi, Steve -
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 09:28:03AM +0100, Steve Brown wrote:
> > I don't think that it is the case that you didn't manage to carry it > off - more that the > Linux environment changed. Distibutions are much easier to install, hardware > has better support and there are more locations to go to for help if > you are stuck.
Yep. I realized that, and tried to focus on a direction that would emphasize the value of LG even in that environment. This, perhaps, would be the best area to explore if someone wanted to revitalize LG: what is, as the sales folks say, the value proposition here? What does LG offer that other Linux resources do not?
> Also I consider that LG is a forum for expertise - the articles are of > a consistently > high standard and TAG often has very interesting conversations that roam over > many aspects of Linux use not covered elsewhere.
Exactly the key factors that I tried to maintain and sharpen.
> It hasn't failed - it is just too burdensome for one man to keep doing > alone. It needs a team, > built around a different editor to give you the rest you need. I'd > hate to see you > leave LG entirely though - you have been such a vital part for so > long, perhaps a guest > editor slot would suit?
Gladly. Whatever technical expertise or advice I can provide (to be taken with a large grain of salt, of course), time permitting.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 09:15:24PM -0400, Nicodemo Alvaro wrote:
> On 5/20/11, René Pfeiffer <lynx@luchs.at> wrote: > > Now we need names tied to tasks to go forward. Unless there's no one > > actually providing the blog, infrastructure, editing or a point of contact, > > I understood that Linux Gazette would be using the current the servers. > Why not use a wiki system to encourage participation from new editors?
"What we got here is a failure to communicate." [ducks]
The referent in English is a slippery beast that is easily spooked; it runs away at the slightest provocation, and sometimes without any reason at all. Since René was explicitly addressing the problem of the human resources within LG - the key problem that I had brought up as the very reason for stepping down - all of the above terms refer to the people who would volunteer to do the above tasks rather than the software or the equipment (which, as I've mentioned previously, I'd be happy to continue providing.)
But I'm not at all surprised at your missing it; most people in this milieu don't tend to think in those terms. It's like a different language, with an utterly different mental map.
I'm currently working my way through an audiobook, a Russian rendition of Lion Feuchtwanger's "Der Falsche Nero". Given that it's Feuchtwanger, it is (of course) brilliantly researched and masterfully written - strong wine indeed - but the point I wanted to underscore here is that the story of Terentius' ascent to power is all about the human factor and those who understand the true nature of that power. A different language indeed.
Ben
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Steve Brown [steve.stevebrown at gmail.com]
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 09:15:24PM -0400, Nicodemo Alvaro wrote: >> On 5/20/11, René Pfeiffer <lynx@luchs.at> wrote: >> > Now we need names tied to tasks to go forward. Unless there's no one >> > actually providing the blog, infrastructure, editing or a point of con=tact,
> "What we got here is a failure to communicate." [ducks]
So, to state it much more boldly (baldly would do as well I suppose):
Who will volunteer?
It's at this point that I imagine a long line of soldiery taking one smart = step backwards leaving their favoured candidate alone at the front. We've already done that and Ben's not going to fall for it again ;-)
If we cannot source any staff for the Gazette then it cannot run - once we = have the staff then we can discuss the best solution for the people we have available.
-- =
Steve TAG mailing list TAG@lists.linuxgazette.net http://lists.linuxgazette.net/listinfo/tag
René Pfeiffer [lynx at luchs.at]
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On May 24, 2011 at 0917 +0100, Steve Brown appeared and said:
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> wrote: > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 09:15:24PM -0400, Nicodemo Alvaro wrote: > >> On 5/20/11, René Pfeiffer <lynx@luchs.at> wrote: > >> > Now we need names tied to tasks to go forward. Unless there's no one > >> > actually providing the blog, infrastructure, editing or a point of c=ontact,
>=20 > > "What we got here is a failure to communicate." [ducks]
I am careful not to promise more than I can keep, but I am willing to write articles and help with the editing. I have to do this for my own web site and for blog.deepsec.net (which is part of my time constraints and part of the reason why my backlog of ideas isn't turned into LG articles); I can al= so offer to use some of this material for LG (i.e. create original material for LG and link/refer to it). I have tutorials and talks planned for the re= st of the year, so there's an ample source of content available.
> It's at this point that I imagine a long line of soldiery taking one smar=t step
> backwards leaving their favoured candidate alone at the front. We've alre=ady
> done that and Ben's not going to fall for it again ;-)
We need at least two or three persons who take the lead and keep an eye on tasks. I may contribute some resources from other projects as well, but I will do this only if not doing this alone.
> If we cannot source any staff for the Gazette then it cannot run - once w=e have
> the staff then we can discuss the best solution for the people we have > available.
Plus we need deadlines. If we can't manage to assemble a team until the end of June 2011, then we should archive LG and move on.
Cheers, René.
--=20 )\._.,--....,'``. fL Let GNU/Linux work for you while you take a nap. /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. R. Pfeiffer <lynx at luchs.at> + http://web.luchs= =2Eat/ `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' - System administration + Consulting + Teaching - Got mail delivery problems? http://web.luchs.at/information/blockedmail.php
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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 09:17:11AM +0100, Steve Brown wrote:
> > So, to state it much more boldly (baldly would do as well I suppose): > > Who will volunteer? > > It's at this point that I imagine a long line of soldiery taking one smart step > backwards leaving their favoured candidate alone at the front. We've already > done that and Ben's not going to fall for it again ;-)
[grin] Brilliant image, Steve. And accurate take on the events, as well.
> If we cannot source any staff for the Gazette then it cannot run - once we have > the staff then we can discuss the best solution for the people we have > available.
I do hope that everyone takes this as the call to arms that it is. Folks, if you don't respond, LG is a dead letter. If that's what you choose, then fine - but please don't let it happen through automatic passivity; if you choose not to decide, you are deciding - and you're casting a vote for the death of LG. And thinking "oh, but I only have a little time to contribute, and I'm not all that skilled..." is another choice that ends the game: if you have anything to contribute, it would be useful. If it doesn't get used, then that's a failure at the staff level - but at least you've voted for LG to live by offering your effort. That's a big difference.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:49:51PM +0200, René Pfeiffer wrote:
> On May 24, 2011 at 0917 +0100, Steve Brown appeared and said: > > > > Who will volunteer? > > I am careful not to promise more than I can keep, but I am willing to write > articles and help with the editing.
And this is the best kind of response, bar none. Stating both what you can offer as well as your limits is the best kind of info for coordinating an effort. Do we have any more volunteers? Especially, do we have any volunteers who would be good at coordinating this effort, either by themselves or as part of a coordination team?
My time is pretty seriously circumscribed these days, but I can definitely offer whatever expertise I've gained in my time as EiC. If I focus on my areas of competence and watch my time carefully, I should be able to provide both staff and technical expertise. Proofing is too time-intensive for me, though.
> We need at least two or three persons who take the lead and keep an eye on > tasks. I may contribute some resources from other projects as well, but I > will do this only if not doing this alone.
René, I'd be proud to work with you on this. Although I definitely think that we need at least two more people on the staff side; three would be better, if we assume that others have time constraints similar to ours.
> Plus we need deadlines. If we can't manage to assemble a team until the end > of June 2011, then we should archive LG and move on.
I'll echo that judgement.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
afsilva@gmail.com [afsilva at gmail.com]
Should we announce something on LG, Twitter and FB about the end or hiatus of the webzine?
Maybe volunteers will come out of it...
AS
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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 09:04:50PM -0400, Anderson Silva wrote:
> Should we announce something on LG, Twitter and FB about the end or > hiatus of the webzine? > > Maybe volunteers will come out of it...
Well, having said that I would indeed publish one last issue, I'm in the process of doing so right now. I'll publish all the TAG discussion, as well.
Let's see what happens.
Ben
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