...making Linux just a little more fun!
Arild Jensen [2elnav at netbistro.com]
Ben Okopnik recommended a software program called "xoscope" and gave a link to a website showing how to build an input circuit or use a sound card.
I now have the sound card microphone input working and the Xoscope display up; but the sounds from the mike goes to the speakers, not the xoscope display. What do I do to link the two?
I'm a newcomer to Linux, so please go easy with the jargon. I installed UBUNTU only a month ago. I am still learning how to use it.
regards
Arild Jensen (user name elnav)
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:11:01PM -0700, Arild Jensen wrote:
> Ben Okopnik recommended a software program called "xoscope" and gave a > link to a website showing how to build an input circuit or use a sound > card. > I now have the sound card microphone input working and the Xoscope > display up; but the sounds from the mike goes to the speakers, not the > xoscope display. What do I do to link the two? > > I'm a newcomer to Linux, so please go easy with the jargon. I installed > UBUNTU only a month ago. I am still learning how to use it.
Hi, Arild - nice to see you here!
Unfortunately, I can't offer a whole lot of help for this problem: your problem doesn't have anything to do with Linux, just with the program's interface. Like every other program in every other operating system, 'xoscope' has its own controls and adjustments - and I'm not all that familiar with it. There are instructions in its manual page (go to the terminal and type 'man xoscope'), which also contains a description of the keys used to control it in the "RUN-TIME KEYBOARD CONTROLS" section.
I found that figuring it out is a lot easier when you have a steady waveform to read - so I downloaded and ran a program called "siggen" (written by our own Jim Jackson - it's quite the nifty gadget!) After that, I started 'xoscope' and presto - I could see the waveform, and didn't need to click 'Run' or anything else. I did need to adjust the sensitivity to see more amplitude, but that's just how scopes work.
Oh, and - it's OK for the sound to come out of the speakers. That doesn't interfere with the operation of 'xoscope' at all.
Good luck!
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:09:24PM -0400, Benjamin Okopnik wrote:
> > Like every other program in every other operating system, > 'xoscope' has its own controls and adjustments - and I'm not all that > familiar with it.
On the other hand, a couple of minutes of messing around with it produced good results. Here's a screenshot with 'siggen', 'xoscope', and the 'xoscope' man page:
http://okopnik.com/images/2009-03-27_1280x800.png
I ran 'siggen' and set the frequency to 60Hz and the gain to 1.0; then, I ran 'xoscope', set the base level of channel 1 about half-way up in the top half of the display using the ']' key, and raised the vertical gain with the '}' key. Channel 2 (selected with '2') got much the same treatment on the bottom half of the screen. Last, I hit the space bar to set the trigger mode to "Run", which 'froze' the two waveforms on the screen. Not bad, even though the sound card is clipping the input signal - which I'm sure could be resolved with a bit more messing around.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
[ Hi, Arild - please make sure to include the list in your response. Thanks! ]
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 08:19:06PM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Okopnik" <ben@linuxgazette.net> >> On the other hand, a couple of minutes of messing around with it >> produced good results. Here's a screenshot with 'siggen', 'xoscope', and >> the 'xoscope' man page: >> >> http://okopnik.com/images/2009-03-27_1280x800.png > > I have been screweing about with it for half an hour and gotten no where. > I am obviously missing something fundamental to using linux.
Nope. Just the program. The fact that you have a way to interact with your computer - whether via menus, command line, icons, or whatever - means that you're not having a problem with Linux. If you were having a problem with Linux, you'd get some high-powered artillery backing you up: there's a bunch of smart, knowledgeable people on this list who are quite expert in various aspects of Linux. Since you're not, there isn't a huge amount of help available - except, perhaps, in the 'xoscope'-related forums:
http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=7547
> For example starting at the Ubuntu desk top where is the command line > to enter "SIGGEN".
In the terminal - and it would be 'siggen' (lower case.) In fact, in my opinion, it's best to run any program that you're not sure of in the terminal; that way, if there are any error messages or warnings, you'll see them printed out.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
[2elnav at netbistro.com]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Okopnik" <ben@linuxgazette.net>>[ Hi, Arild - please make sure to include the list in your response.
> Thanks! ] > >> I am obviously missing something fundamental to using linux. > > Nope. Just the program. The fact that you have a way to interact with > your computer - whether via menus, command line, icons, or whatever - > means that you're not having a problem with Linux.
REPLY I meant to say I am missing something fundamental in my comprehension of Linux. Not that a fundamental parto of Linux was missing.
I found a terminal and opened it. Typed in siggen. It then told me to type in < sudo apt-get install tripwire >. ?? Wazzat? I don't know about any tripwire. It then tells me to bash siggen. Its confusing to me.
What's with the bashing??? Smash it with my fist or use a hammer?? <smile> Come on; that's teenage jargon of the lower class sort. Not worthy of real engineers.
And who but engineers would try to use an oscope in the first place. Hence my earlier question to you about a lexicon for us Windoze refugees trying to get ahead in the computer world.
Then it prints [sudo] password for Arild but when I enter the password it comes back at me saying the program (password) is currently not installed. Well of course not; it's a password!
Again it's a lot of insider jargon and verbal short cuts. I'm not a twenty year old college student into jive ( or should that be linux ) talk. I do speak the Queen's english properly, although it is my second language.
Yeah I eventually got it but it took a while. <sigh>
I am trying to promote a shift to Linux but this kind of thing puts of many of my contemporaries off. They are barely comfortable with windows but at least microsoft sometimes tries to use plain english. This is probably one of th ebig stumboling blocks to widespread acceptance by the genral population. Two of my friends uninstalled Ubuntu for that very reason. It was hard enough to convince them to try it at all.
[[[ Note: I've done a bit of cleaing up in Arild's posts, for reader ease. -- Kat ]]]
> If you were having a problem with Linux, you'd get some high-powered > artillery backing you up: there's a bunch of smart, knowledgeable people on > this list who are quite expert in various aspects of Linux. Since you're > not, there isn't a huge amount of help available - except, perhaps, in the > 'xoscope'-related forums: > > http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=7547 > In the terminal - and it would be 'siggen' (lower case.) In fact, in my > opinion, it's best to run any program that you're not sure of in the > terminal; that way, if there are any error messages or warnings, you'll > see them printed out. > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
After i finally got the Tripwire thing going after a lot of minutes it get to the point of askign me for a key phrase only to reject it by saying it is not an existing file or directory. ?????????
Very frustrating. People my age are not usually possessed of a photographic memory. Computer geeks tend to forget that when writing program for use by the general public.
cheers
Arild .
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 09:49:57PM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
> > I found a terminal and opened it. Typed in siggen. > It then told me to type in < sudo apt-get install tripwire >. > ?? Wazzat? I don't know about any tripwire.
Arild, I honestly have no idea of what you're doing on your system - except that your results make no sense whatsoever. 'tripwire' has absolutely nothing to do with 'siggen', and no conceivable action related to 'siggen' would cause the system to tell you to install 'tripwire'.
> It then tells me to bash siggen. Its confusing to me.
Well, no - it didn't tell you to "bash siggen". I'd appreciate it if you'd actually copy and paste the messages that you're getting - that's standard protocol when asking for help - rather than (mis)quoting what you saw.
> What's with the bashing??? Smash it with my fist or use a hammer?? > <smile> > Come on; that's teenage jargon of the lower class sort. Not worthy of > real engineers.
What's with the misreading? That's not worthy of real engineers. You wouldn't just pick some random numbers to put on a schematic, right? In fact, you'd be very precise about part numbers, values, tolerances, and so on - at least if you wanted to be understood. The same applies here, to an even greater degree.
> And who but engineers would try to use an oscope in the first place. > Hence my earlier question to you about a lexicon for us Windoze refugees > trying to get ahead in the computer world.
Can you show me the kind of lexicon you're talking about for Windows? Once you do, I'll be happy to point you to an equivalent one for Linux.
> Then it prints [sudo] password for Arild but when I enter the password > it comes back at me saying the program (password) is currently not > installed. Well of course not; it's a password!
Again, you're misquoting. I realize you're frustrated, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't keep blasting us with your frustration instead of supplying accurate information. "It" didn't print "[sudo] password for Arild"; in fact, I have no idea what you saw except that it wasn't what you've said here.
What it sounds like - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - is that you didn't enter the password when you were prompted; instead, you typed the word "password", possibly followed by your password, at the command line. Unsurprisingly, you got an error message; random pounding on a keyboard does that.
I have no idea how you got into this tripwire/sudo/password/etc. round of errors, but whatever that's about, you need to stop, take a deep breath, and reapproach it with care and attention. You know, just like engineering.
> Again it's a lot of insider jargon and verbal short cuts. I'm not a > twenty year old college student into jive ( or should that be linux ) > talk.
Y'know, that's pretty unpleasant language. It implies that the rest of us are students who are into jargon, etc. I strongly suggest that you stop venting your frustration here; this isn't the place for it, and doing so will result in return unpleasantness.
> I am trying to promote a shift to Linux but this kind of thing puts of > many of my contemporaries off.
You may consider yourself as promoting a shift to Linux; in reality, given what you've said here, you're promoting a hostile attitude toward it instead. In fact, you have a very serious flaw in your understanding of how this works, and a badly-mistaken social approach based on that flaw.
See, none of us gain anything if you or your friends use Linux, and we lose nothing if you don't. Frankly, we don't really care. We do like to foster a sense of community by helping people who have problems with Linux, but we don't owe it to them; in fact, anyone coming here to ask for help owes us - at least by the rules of common politeness. And yet, we sometimes get people coming in here with a belligerent sense of entitlement, demanding that we help them and throwing their frustration at us as if to beat us "jargon-using students" into quaking compliance with their demands.
People who do that usually get laughed at and ridiculed for their pains. The only reason I've remained civil throughout is because you and I have had pleasant off-list conversations - where, I note, you never displayed behavior like this.
Now, you can either stomp out of here (which would be the classic pusillanimous behavior in such cases), or you can start behaving in a reasonable manner. That would include being polite, asking questions in an informative manner - remember when I told you about that being an important requirement? - and expressing gratitude for the help that you're given (which, I note, you still owe: I've already helped you with several issues, and you haven't said "thank you" yet.) That would be behavior consistent with rationality and maturity worthy of a real engineer.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
I'm afraid I'm coming in late on this thread, and am not clear on what Arild's problem is, either. (Arild, my sincere regrets that you're having a difficult time with something.) I happened to spot one thing in Ben's post I might usefully comment on -- even though I completely lack the larger context of this discussion:
Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@linuxgazette.net):
> > I found a terminal and opened it. Typed in siggen. > > It then told me to type in < sudo apt-get install tripwire >. > > ?? Wazzat? I don't know about any tripwire. > > Arild, I honestly have no idea of what you're doing on your system - > except that your results make no sense whatsoever. 'tripwire' has > absolutely nothing to do with 'siggen', and no conceivable action > related to 'siggen' would cause the system to tell you to install > 'tripwire'.
Back when I was spending time working with the extremely human-hostile, ponderous, cryptic intrusion detection system (IDS) called Tripwire, written eons ago by Eugene Kim and Gene Spafford at Purdue University, I learned it furnished a number of utilities to handle its crypto encoding and signing of all files. Chief among them was siggen(8), which calculates CRC32, MD5, SHA1, and HAVAL hash values of any target file.
I have no idea what specific "it" advised Arild to install the Tripwire package, but it (well, part of it) makes a weird, backwards kind of sense, I suppose -- albeit I find it unlikely that Arild actually intends to work with siggen or any other aspect of Tripwire.
To support what you said, it seems difficult to determine from Arild's account what he was doing, what he was trying to accomplish, or what happened, for lack of coherent detail.
-- Cheers, Crypto lets someone say "Hi! I absolutely definitely have Rick Moen a name somewhat like the name of a large familiar rick@linuxmafia.com organization, and I'd like to steal your data!" and lots McQ! (4x80) of users will say "OK, fine, whatever." -- John Levine
Jason Wigg [jw5801 at gmail.com]
On 03/28/2009 05:34 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Back when I was spending time working with the extremely > human-hostile, ponderous, cryptic intrusion detection system (IDS) > called Tripwire, written eons ago by Eugene Kim and Gene Spafford at > Purdue University, I learned it furnished a number of utilities to > handle its crypto encoding and signing of all files. Chief among them > was siggen(8), which calculates CRC32, MD5, SHA1, and HAVAL hash > values of any target file. > I have no idea what specific "it" advised Arild to install the Tripwire > package, but it (well, part of it) makes a weird, backwards kind of > sense, I suppose -- albeit I find it unlikely that Arild actually > intends to work with siggen or any other aspect of Tripwire. > > To support what you said, it seems difficult to determine from Arild's > account what he was doing, what he was trying to accomplish, or what > happened, for lack of coherent detail.
If presented with a call to a command that bash can't find, the Ubuntu flavour of apt will attempt to identify the package that would contain said command, and recommend that the user "sudo apt-get install $(package)". So in this case, it would appear that the package that was found was tripwire, and when attempting to follow the instructions Arild muddled up his password at the prompt and was presented with a confusing message. At least, that's my understanding of the scenario, anyway.
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 01:45:18AM +1100, Jason Wigg wrote:
> > If presented with a call to a command that bash can't find, the Ubuntu > flavour of apt will attempt to identify the package that would contain > said command, and recommend that the user "sudo apt-get install > $(package)". So in this case, it would appear that the package that was > found was tripwire, and when attempting to follow the instructions Arild > muddled up his password at the prompt and was presented with a confusing > message. At least, that's my understanding of the scenario, anyway.
Just to give a little context here: in a previous exchange, I told Arild to install Jim Jackson's "siggen" and even gave him the specific command line for doing so. Clearly, he failed to do that - so the "command-not-found" program (that's its actual name, believe it or not) told him (incorrectly) to install 'tripwire'.
My fault for assuming that people asking for help will actually follow instructions, I guess...
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@linuxgazette.net):
> My fault for assuming that people asking for help will actually follow > instructions, I guess...
And a reminder that one of the reason we ask people to be specific in their problem reports is that the phrase "it didn't work" often does conceal an utter failure to bother following instructions, leading to wasting of the helper's time, in addition to the un-diligent user.
--
Cheers, "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first
Rick Moen woman she meets, and then teams up with three complete strangers
rick@linuxmafia.com to kill again." -- Rick Polito's That TV Guy column,
describing the movie _The Wizard of Oz_
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com):
> And a reminder that one of the reason we ask people to be specific in > their problem reports is that the phrase "it didn't work" often does > conceal an utter failure to bother following instructions, leading to > wasting of the helper's time, in addition to the un-diligent user.
^ that of
...although, at times, wasting verbally-abusive users does have its
attractions.
Chris Bannister [mockingbird at earthlight.co.nz]
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:35:50AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> And a reminder that one of the reason we ask people to be specific in > their problem reports is that the phrase "it didn't work" often does > conceal an utter failure to bother following instructions, leading to > wasting of the helper's time, in addition to the un-diligent user.^^^^^^^^^^^
Is there such a word as undiligent or is that YANAW[1]
See http://www.synonym.com/antonym/diligent/
[1] Yet Another New American Word
--
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-- Stephen F Roberts
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Chris Bannister (mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz):
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:35:50AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > > And a reminder that one of the reason we ask people to be specific in > > their problem reports is that the phrase "it didn't work" often does > > conceal an utter failure to bother following instructions, leading to > > wasting of the helper's time, in addition to the un-diligent user. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Is there such a word as undiligent or is that YANAW[1]
First of all, I did not use the non-word "undiligent": You did.
My OED claims that the word "diligent" and the prefix "un-" do exist in the English language. If you've never seen them in company before, this can be a new thing in your life. You're welcome.
Second, if anyone needs to be blamed for my education, it'd need to be the British, whose state school in Hong Kong I had the honour of attending. (I have no complaints.)
-- Cheers, find / -user your -name base -print | xargs chown us:us Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com
[2elnav at netbistro.com]
> Arild, I'd appreciate it if you'd actually copy and paste the messages > that you're getting - that's standard protocol when asking for help - > rather than (mis)quoting what you saw.
REPLY HOW DO I DO THAT?
[[[ I've taken the liberty again here of correting Arild's formatting problem, wherein the quoted text isn't properly marked off. -- Kat ]]]
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:08:04PM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
> > > Arild, I'd appreciate it if you'd actually copy and paste the messages > > that you're getting - that's standard protocol when asking for help - > > rather than (mis)quoting what you saw. > > HOW DO I DO THAT?
First off, by not yelling (ALL-CAPITALS TEXT IS CONSIDERED TO BE
YELLING. 
Copying and pasting in Linux is easy: hold down the left mouse button and drag the mouse over the text that you want to copy (the text will be highlighted as you do this.) When you want to paste it, click both mouse buttons at the same time; the pasted text will be inserted at the current position of your cursor.
I suggest you practice this by opening up a terminal and starting an editor (e.g., "nano" which is probably already installed on your system), then writing something like "Hello, world!" and copying and pasting a few dozen times to get familiar with the process.
You can also copy and paste from one window to another. The procedure is exactly the same, except that you'll need to "move the focus" from the first window to the second one between the two operations. That procedure goes like this:
1) Highlight the text in window 1. 2) Left-click anywhere in window 2. 3) Both-click anywhere in window 2.
This is a basic procedure that's used dozens of times every day. Good idea to get familiar with it.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
[2elnav at netbistro.com]
> You can also copy and paste from one window to another. > 1) Highlight the text in window 1. > 2) Left-click anywhere in window 2. > 3) Both-click anywhere in window 2. > > This is a basic procedure that's used dozens of times every day. Good > idea to get familiar with it.
reply
Ben that is the problem.
I am quite familiar with cut and paste in Windows, but; . . . .
Whenever I try this in UBUNTU when I start to copy something into a webmail window or change from one webmail to another email the first window disappears. And nothing shows up when I click on <paste>. Apparently this particular webmail my ISP uses doesn't allow multiple windows being open simultaneously. At least not inside webmail. Its all I got to ork with.
I cannot cut and paste from one computer to the other.
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 07:21:11PM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
> > > You can also copy and paste from one window to another. > > 1) Highlight the text in window 1. > > 2) Left-click anywhere in window 2. > > 3) Both-click anywhere in window 2. > > > > This is a basic procedure that's used dozens of times every day. Good > > idea to get familiar with it. > > Ben that is the problem. > I am quite familiar with cut and paste in Windows, but; . . . .
This is why I gave step-by-step instructions in my last email, Arild: copying and pasting is different between Windows and Linux. It really is. I suggest that you read what I wrote, and follow the instructions so that you become familiar with how it's done in Linux.
> Whenever I try this in UBUNTU when I start to copy something into a > webmail window or change from one webmail to another email the first > window disappears.
Again, whatever it is that you're doing does not sound like standard behavior for mail - including webmail. The webmail window disappears when you try to paste into it? The only thing I can imagine is that you're hitting some key combination (Alt-F4? Ctrl-C?) that makes it go away. I can't think of any kind of normal copy-and-paste behavior that would close a browser window.
> And nothing shows up when I click on <paste>.
What's the <paste> that you're clicking on? If you read my instructions - the ones that you quoted above - there's no "<paste>" to click on. Whatever that "<paste>" may be, it's the wrong thing to do. Please try following my instructions, then tell me what happened, and we'll be able to go forwar from that.
> Apparently this particular webmail my ISP uses doesn't allow multiple > windows being open simultaneously. At least not inside webmail. Its all I > got to ork with.
Have you tried right-clicking on the link and opening it in a new tab or window? That might be a good answer to this problem.
(The real answer would be not to use webmail - at least not via the browser-based, which has its own set of behaviors. It's much better to use one of the mail programs available under Linux.)
> I cannot cut and paste from one computer to the other.
Let's be a bit more precise here: you haven't yet learned how to do so. I assure you that you can - at least once you learn the method I've been telling you about.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
Breen Mullins [breen.mullins at gmail.com]
* Ben Okopnik <ben@linuxgazette.net> [2009-03-29 23:54 -0400]:
>Again, whatever it is that you're doing does not sound like standard >behavior for mail - including webmail. The webmail window disappears >when you try to paste into it? The only thing I can imagine is that >you're hitting some key combination (Alt-F4? Ctrl-C?) that makes it go >away. I can't think of any kind of normal copy-and-paste behavior that >would close a browser window.
I think I might - if the Ubuntu desktop that Arild is using has the X focus follows mouse behavior, it may appear as if the previous window is being closed.
Arild, if you're forced for the moment to use webmail, you're clearly using a web browser of some kind. It's probably Firefox. Instead of opening another browser window, try typing Ctrl-T to open another tab. That should get you past the problem of copy and paste that you're working on with Ben.
-- Breen Mullins <breen.mullins@gmail.com>
[2elnav at netbistro.com]
> Arild, if you're forced for the moment to use webmail, you're clearly > using a web browser of some kind. It's probably Firefox. Instead of > opening another browser window, try typing Ctrl-T to open another > tab. That should get you past the problem of copy and paste that > you're working on with Ben.
> Breen Mullins > <breen.mullins@gmail.com>
Reply.
Breen
The real difficulty with the cut and paste method is due to the fact that xoscope is running on a different computer from what I use for webmail. So when I get Ben's email its on my Windows only computer; but the program I am trying to fix up is on the other computer. The only way I have at present is to link them via webmail on Wi Fi.
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:51:27PM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
> > > Arild, if you're forced for the moment to use webmail, you're clearly > > using a web browser of some kind. It's probably Firefox. Instead of > > opening another browser window, try typing Ctrl-T to open another > > tab. That should get you past the problem of copy and paste that > > you're working on with Ben. > > The real difficulty with the cut and paste method is due to the fact that > xoscope is running on a different computer from what I use for webmail. So > when I get Ben's email its on my Windows only computer; but the program I > am trying to fix up is on the other computer. The only way I have at > present is to link them via webmail on Wi Fi.
[ Arild: please note that you don't need to insert the word 'reply' before your replies; email programs, including the one used by your webmail program, insert a column of '>' signs before each reply level, making the flow of conversation distinct and clear. If you'll look at the text quoted above, you'll see what I mean. ]
Ah - now I understand why you were saying that you can't copy-and-paste between computers. Although I am a little confused about why you'd do that: since I remember you installing packages via "apt-get", I know that your Linux machine is connected to the Net, and since you use webmail, you shouldn't have a problem using a browser from Linux to do your email. If you do that, you wouldn't need to C-and-P between computers; it would make life simpler for you overall.
You are right to this extent: it's a little more complicated to copy-and-paste between machines running different operating systems. Not impossible, mind you: you could run a VNC server on your Windows machine (http://www.realvnc.com/products/free/4.1/download.html) and a VNC client on your Linux box, and you could definitely paste from one to the other.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
[2elnav at netbistro.com]
> [ Arild: please note that you don't need to insert the word 'reply' > before your replies;
Apologies!!! I told you I was a dinosaur. I learned email techniques back in the early eighties. Old habits die hard. Back then BBS on a 300 baud dial up was high tech.
>Although I am a little confused about why you'd do that: since I >remember you installing packages via "apt-get", I know that your Linux >machine is connected to the Net, and since you use webmail, you shouldn't >have a problem using a browser from Linux to do your email. If you do >that, you wouldn't need to C-and-P between computers; it would make life >simpler for you overall.
[[[ Had to do a bit of repair here...I don't know why Arild's mail comes through with garbled quoting, but the linebreaks went wonky up above. -- Kat ]]]
Because; as I told you before I DON'T KNOW HOW!! I am a newbie with only a limited exposure to Linux. Every time I ask for help I'm told it available online but I can't make sense of all the techno jargon, acronyms and verbal short hand used.
> mind you: you could run a VNC server on your Windows machine > (http://www.realvnc.com/products/free/4.1/download.html) and a VNC > client on your Linux box, and you could definitely paste from one to the > other.
What's that? What does V N C stand for? Never heard of it nor how to use it. If the install procedure is anything like this siggen program I have little hope of getting it right.
The only reason I can get online is because the UBUNTU program figured it out by itself. However I can't puzzle out how to configure it to do anything else like using these clients you refer to. All the instructions are so obscure with jargon I get lost.
I told you I am a newbie with only a couple months experience with Linux. And that mostly with webmail.
A lot of this stuff requires using state of the art equipment. My computers are all salvaged from the scrap yard. They are 8 to 10 years old.
My linux box was destined for the dump when I intercepted it. Will this VNS stuff be compatible.
Arild
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting 2elnav@netbistro.com (2elnav@netbistro.com):
> Ben wrote: > > > [ Arild: please note that you don't need to insert the word 'reply' > > before your replies; > > Apologies!!! I told you I was a dinosaur. I learned email techniques back > in the early eighties. Old habits die hard. Back then BBS on a 300 baud > dial up was high tech.
Odd that you should mention that: I was a BBS sysop in the early to late eighties (RBBS-PC behind BinkleyTerm), and one of few small blessings along with the rather primative infrastructure and software was that people did use proper quoting practices, such as the ones Ben is now suggesting you use.
> Because; as I told you before I DON'T KNOW HOW!! I am a newbie with > only a limited exposure to Linux.
Since you don't know, and since you're having to follow expert instructions sent to you asynchronously via e-mail, you need to _follow instructions carefully_ and be specific and detailed in your problem reports. We dinosaurs learned that back in the 80s, right?
Ben should not be needing to coach you into recognising that "dpkg-p" is not an accurate way of typing "dpkg -P", for example. Please stop floundering around, take a deep breath, and start over with what Ben asked you to do, paying closer attention this time.
> A lot of this stuff requires using state of the art equipment. My > computers are all salvaged from the scrap yard. They are 8 to 10 years > old.
The bit about "requiring state of the art equipment" is rubbish. My server, which runs all of _Linux Gazette's_ mailing lists, plus a major Web site, plus other mailing lists and a great deal of local user services, is an 11-year-old throwaway VA Research model 500 PIII/500 with 256 MB RAM and a pair of 9 GB hard drives.
If I wanted it to run VNC (not "VNS") software, it would do that too. But never mind about that passing reference to VNC[1], which was just someone's offhand refutation of your claim that you can't cut and paste between machines, and please concentrate on the original solution, which you flubbed by not bothering to type it accurately.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VNC
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:48:27AM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote:
> > [ Arild: please note that you don't need to insert the word 'reply' > > before your replies; > > Apologies!!! I told you I was a dinosaur. I learned email techniques back > in the early eighties. Old habits die hard. Back then BBS on a 300 baud > dial up was high tech.That's when I started, too. I remember being annoyed because those damn newfangled 1200 baud modems scrolled text faster than I could read it.
> >Although I am a little confused about why you'd do that: since I > >remember you installing packages via "apt-get", I know that your Linux > >machine is connected to the Net, and since you use webmail, you > shouldn't >have a problem using a browser from Linux to do your email. If > you do >that, you wouldn't need to C-and-P between computers; it would > make life >simpler for you overall. > > Because; as I told you before I DON'T KNOW HOW!!
Yes, you do. I've told you how. The problem is that instead of listening, you've spent all your time yelling how you don't know.
Stop. Wind down. Take a deep breath. Then, carefully follow the instructions that you've been given. If they don't resolve the problem, or if you encounter new problems, come back and state those problems - including any error messages - clearly and concisely, and we'll help you, just as we have been all along.
I fully realize that going through the process of asking for technical help can be intimidating and uncomfortable, particularly the first time. This is, however, what it takes to make it possible for people to help you - and getting frustrated and loud only 1) prevents people from helping you and 2) makes it progressively more likely that someone on the helping end will get annoyed and tell you to... um, chase flies, but more emphatically.
> I am a newbie with > only a limited exposure to Linux. Every time I ask for help I'm told it > available online but I can't make sense of all the techno jargon, acronyms > and verbal short hand used.You have received actual top-quality help here, including a hell of a lot of proper behavior clues, painstaking explanations of fine details, and advice about things that any "dinosaur" from the early 80s would know. The only thing you're being asked is to stop yelling about your inability and FOLLOW SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS.
> > mind you: you could run a VNC server on your Windows machine > > (http://www.realvnc.com/products/free/4.1/download.html) and a VNC > > client on your Linux box, and you could definitely paste from one to the > > other. > > What's that?
You could actually read the page at the above link and find out, you know.
> What does V N C stand for?
Could be anything at all. Why not read the page and find out?
> Never heard of it nor how to use it.
Perhaps you could, y'know, actually READ THE PAGE AND LEARN? It's a novel concept, but might be worth exploring.
> If the install procedure is anything like this siggen program I have > little hope of getting it right.
If you do it by getting obnoxious and yelling about how you don't know anything, then you're right: it's hopeless. If you actually follow instructions, then it's very easy.
> The only reason I can get online is because the UBUNTU program figured it > out by itself. However I can't puzzle out how to configure it to do > anything else like using these clients you refer to. All the instructions > are so obscure with jargon I get lost.
No, the instructions here have been written in plain, clear, unabbreviated English. Anything that might have been unclear was explained to the best of our ability. You've ignored all the help that you've received and continued yelling about "jargon" and so on.
If you stop yelling, start listening, and follow instructions, you just might learn something.
> I told you I am a newbie with only a couple months experience with Linux. > And that mostly with webmail.
That's why you should be listening really, really hard, and following instructions to the best of your ability.
> A lot of this stuff requires using state of the art equipment.
What "stuff" are you panicking about? Nothing that anyone here has mentioned requires any "state of the art equipment".
> My > computers are all salvaged from the scrap yard. They are 8 to 10 years > old. > My linux box was destined for the dump when I intercepted it. Will this > VNS stuff be compatible.
That would be VN*C* - this being yet another example of your sloppy approach and unpleasantly careless attitude toward what you're being told. The answer is "yes" - VNC works fine even on very old equipment... not that that really has to do with anything. Have you practiced copying and pasting as I suggested? If you haven't, then I don't know what you're expecting to gain here.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *
[2elnav at netbistro.com]
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:08:04PM -0700, 2elnav@netbistro.com wrote: >> >> > Arild, I'd appreciate it if you'd actually copy and paste the messages >> > that you're getting - that's standard protocol when asking for help - >> > rather than (mis)quoting what you saw.
Ben I have been experimenting.
First off ; I am quite familiar with cut and past in Windows.
However this Linux webmail does not seem to allow me to open two windows or emails simultaneously. Every time I try to write you a reply, the webmail vanishes as soon as I open the second window. When I try to backtrack by clicking the back arrow, the first window has vanished. There is no sign of the message I began in Drafts. Scrolling jumps me right out of webmail and I have to log back in again and start over.
Apparently webmail is not designed to work like this. At least not on what my ISP uses.
Normally I handle my email correspondence on my windows computer but I have not figured out how to cut and paste from one computer to another, - especially when they are not linked. Which is why I paraphrased.
I tried to send myself an email from one computer to the other but that just got me an error message saying it could not be delivered. Nor can I highlight something inside xoscope.for copying out.
To cut and paste I would have to go to my windows machine but then I can't run siggen or Xoscppe inside Windows.
Ideas?
Arild
reagrds
Arild